(God bless all veterans and soldiers now serving, and all America, on this anniversary of Pearl Harbor.)
It's a Good Thing
Baker and The Iraq Study Group has been a good thing, in my opinion, in that it has gotten the United States government and its people thinking about solutions to the Iraq problem.
The Iraq Study Group has gotten all sectors of the world, and of the United States, involved and invested in solving the Iraq conundrum. Most of us don’t understand all the factors involved in this whole mess over there, but we do know that something is wrong, and needs to be fixed. I would argue that no one is wise enough, given all the complexities, to know what is the best thing to do, but the Group made a good effort.
Another good thing about the Iraq Study Group is that Democrats and liberals are again thinking, which is unusual for them. A bad part of the Group is that these same liberals are engaging in their favorite pastime, which is gotcha politics. Many Democrats spend their whole day finding things the evil Republicans have done wrong. They feel vindicated by the Baker Commission Report, (another name for the Iraq Study Group), which basically says that Iraq is a mess, we ought to get out, and we ought to be talking with Syria and Iran.
Syria and Iran love the report. Al-Queda loves the report. The Shias love it. The Sunnis hate it. Saudi Arabia hates it. The bulk of the world loves it.
click to show/hide the rest of the post
Fight to Win or Get Out
Personally, I still remain a neo-con on the war in Iraq. I wish we were waging it all-out, and to win. We aren’t now and never were. We’ve fought a tentative, politically correct war almost the whole time (except for the initial invasion, which was waged the way a war ought to be waged, with overwhelming force.) We’ve never had enough troops in Iraq to handle the post war. On this, I remain in agreement with Colin Powell, who wanted either that we don’t invade Iraq, or that we do so with overwhelming force. John McCain also wants more troops in Iraq, not less. It was Rumsfeld’s idea that we go lean and mean after the initial invasion. This, in my opinion was a mistake.
Since we do not have a President who has the courage to wage an all-out war as is necessary, then the next best alternative, then, is to think about alternatives, now that our politically correct war has made such a mess. So, in this set of circumstances, the Baker Commission is a good thing.
Let's Do It
Again considering that we do not have the will to wage an all-out war in Iraq, the recommendations of the report are, I believe, good ones. We either need to fight to win in Iraq, or get out. If we “get out,” we need to stay in the region, maybe Iraq itself, in areas where our soldiers won’t be targets, to protect against a total takeover by Iran and the Shias; but other than this, we need to get out of the way, and let the Iraqis kill each other until they work things out for themselves. Yes, you panting conspiracy theorists, we do need to protect the oil reserves in Iraq, and keep them from falling into terrorist hands, or to Iran.
Rock
(*Wikipedia is always my source unless indicated.)
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7 comments:
Dude, you forgot that the Lebanese also hate the report... Talking to Iran and Syria (the main causes for instability in Lebanon and the main supporters of Hezbollah) means that Hezbollah will grow even stronger, and cause even more instability in our little country... It also means that Lebanon will turn AGAIN into a bargaining chip between the Americans and the Syrians... The Syrians will go: you want peace in Iraq, give us Lebanon back.. And the democrats rising in the US means that those who supported Lebanon's independence from the Syrians in 2005 (the Republicans) are gone and new people who just want the s*** in the Middle East to end (it sounds like AT ANY PRICE) are here for now... I'm worried...
Tarek, nice to hear from you. You said:
Dude, you forgot that the Lebanese also hate the report... Talking to Iran and Syria (the main causes for instability in Lebanon and the main supporters of Hezbollah) means that Hezbollah will grow even stronger, and cause even more instability in our little country... It also means that Lebanon will turn AGAIN into a bargaining chip between the Americans and the Syrians... The Syrians will go: you want peace in Iraq, give us Lebanon back.. And the democrats rising in the US means that those who supported Lebanon's independence from the Syrians in 2005 (the Republicans) are gone and new people who just want the s*** in the Middle East to end (it sounds like AT ANY PRICE) are here for now... I'm worried...
I know your country is in deep strife right now, and my prayers are with you. I think you're dead-on correct in your assessment, and that's why my first choice as always would be to win the Iraq war by fighting it all-out. I wish more people in the U.S. believed as I do about this.
I don't know all the answers, and your point of view certainly needs to be heard. What is your solution to the problems? I don't want your country to get caught in the vice grip between the various factions.
Thanks for contributing to this important discussion.
Rock
AMEN.
I agree- why must America turn soft?
The liberal media is costing the US troops valuable lives. A war is a war, not a PR offensive.
People die in war situations, unfortunately civilians die, yes. But who is killing them? Not the US troops. Its their own people!
Suicide bombers and terrorist cowards hiding in civilian homes, thats who!
Every time the troops do something about it, the liberals cry out about "human Rights".
Just look at Guantanamo Bay. Leave it open, I say! Throw every terrorist savage in there, torture, beat and kill them, heck, do whatevcer it takes to extract every ounce of information from them that can be used to win this war!
Ironically, nobody seems to complain when civilian hostages are beheaded live on the Internet and splashed out on the International news. No sympathy is shown to these families and governments pay for the release of these guys, thereby funding the terrorist scum.
BOTTOM LINE: Tell the liberals shut the f**k up and let the real patriots win this war.
PROUDLY SUPPORTING THE TROOPS!!
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Hope this makes sense, i just went off on a rant there... : )
Why is it that when the Dems said 6months-a year ago, "The strategy isn't working, we need a new direction, we're in a quagmire, this is another Vietnam (Teddy first said that!), we need more troops etc." you accused them of being stupid anti-American, unpatriotic demagougues who were unsupportive of the president's noble cause? But now, a bi-partisan panel comes out and says the SAME THINGS, you're suddenly supportive of new directions and in agreement that there are significant parallels to Vietnam?
Do the Dem's political leanings bother you THAT much Rock, that you STILL can't admit that there was some validity to their arguments all along? It sounds to me that at least SOME of the Dems have been "thinking" for a while....
Paz, thank you for your comments. You said:
Why is it that when the Dems said 6months-a year ago, "The strategy isn't working, we need a new direction, we're in a quagmire, this is another Vietnam (Teddy first said that!), we need more troops etc." you accused them of being stupid anti-American, unpatriotic demagougues who were unsupportive of the president's noble cause? But now, a bi-partisan panel comes out and says the SAME THINGS, you're suddenly supportive of new directions and in agreement that there are significant parallels to Vietnam?
Do the Dem's political leanings bother you THAT much Rock, that you STILL can't admit that there was some validity to their arguments all along? It sounds to me that at least SOME of the Dems have been "thinking" for a while.
Paz, the thing that bothers me about liberals, including statements like yours above, is that you're always doing the “gotcha” thing. I don’t hear you joining with the rest of us, conservatives I mean, in honestly trying to figure out what is the best thing to do at the moment. It’s always about what the nasty Republicans did last year, two years ago, four years ago.
I made my best judgments then as I do now. One day it would be nice for you and your liberal friends to join the legitimate arguments about what we need to do now to solve the world’s problems, instead of saying “See, I told you so. I was right.” The reason why I get upset with Democrats and liberals is just this very reason. Focus on the problem, not on the conservatives.
Were you guys right and we wrong? No. In fact you missed the most important thing I said in this post Paz, that my first choice would be to fight the war more fiercely, not less. But since liberals and Democrats won’t, I believe, let us win this war, then I am forced to say get out. You imagine I now support your position of a year ago. I do not. We could have won this war, and it wouldn’t have been a Vietnam, if it weren’t for liberals. Liberals stopped us from fighting, made us fight with one hand tied behind our backs, and then, when they crippled us, said “Ha! See, we told you the war was unwinnable!”
Truman would have won this war. FDR would have won this war. Where are your roots, my Dear libs? You’ve abandoned them. We can’t trust liberals on issues of national defense.
Every heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? That’s the middle name of Democrats. “We’re going to lose. The war is unwinnable. It’s another Vietnam.” Yes, you guys were the first to say this. You’re always the first to say this, in any war, and the last. And you do your best to make it come true. And you’ve succeeded again. Another self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, making these statements way back when gave aid and comfort to our enemies. Al-Queda took heart from these Kennedy words and fought on. Now, Kennedy’s words have come true. Congratulations to him.
You always attack me, for what? For telling the truth. Instead of saying, “Great Rock, I see you really are after the truth,” you say, “You said this and this and this, and now you have changed.” Of course I will change. War is a fluid thing, Paz. It’s complex. There are unintended consequences. Each chess move of the enemy, and each debilitating move of the liberals, has to be taken into consideration when planning our next move. A year ago, my Queen was not in jeopardy. Today, she is. A year ago, I had more pieces; now the Iraqis and the liberals have gobbled up many pawns and knights. Was Iraq Vietnam then? No. Is it now? Thanks to liberals, yes.
I’ll be willing to call liberals smart when they start acting smart and saying smart things. This does not mean, Paz, that they have to agree with me, as you presume. It does mean, though, that they focus on the world’s problems and on solutions, instead of how nasty the Republicans are.
Fine, I am willing to listen to your opinions on the Iraq war, why we shouldn’t have done it in the first place and so on. This is great stuff. I’m more interested personally, though, in what we should do now. I repeat, if you and your liberal friends would let America fight, really fight, then I’d vote for staying in Iraq and winning the war. It would be relatively easy to do. Far easier than you can even imagine. But, since you guys have no Trumans or FDR’s, I know you would never let us fight to win. So, since you don’t want to let us fight, then we must choose an alternative proposed by the Baker Commission.
Thanks for your comments.
Rock
Adrian, thanks for your comments. You said:
AMEN. I agree- why must America turn soft? The liberal media is costing the US troops valuable lives. A war is a war, not a PR offensive. People die in war situations, unfortunately civilians die, yes. But who is killing them? Not the US troops. Its their own people! Suicide bombers and terrorist cowards hiding in civilian homes, thats who! Every time the troops do something about it, the liberals cry out about "human Rights". Just look at Guantanamo Bay. Leave it open, I say! Throw every terrorist savage in there, torture, beat and kill them, heck, do whatevcer it takes to extract every ounce of information from them that can be used to win this war! Ironically, nobody seems to complain when civilian hostages are beheaded live on the Internet and splashed out on the International news. No sympathy is shown to these families and governments pay for the release of these guys, thereby funding the terrorist scum. BOTTOM LINE: Tell the liberals shut the f**k up and let the real patriots win this war. PROUDLY SUPPORTING THE TROOPS!! GOD BLESS AMERICA! Hope this makes sense, i just went off on a rant there... : )
Adrian, I certainly can get behind some of your sentiments as far as seeing that liberals have more sympathy for terrorists than they have for anyone else in the world, except for their own selves, and maybe for animals. This is the hierarchy of whom liberals love:
1. terrorists
2. criminals
3. liberals
4. the spotted owl
5. dictators
6. Europeans
7. communists and socialists
8. Americans
9. conservatives
10. religious people
On the other hand, I am against torture of prisoners simply because I don't want to endanger our troops.
Rock
Well Mr Rock, I usually like to take on my friend Paz, you said it so well there is nothing left for me to say, maybe some day Mr Paz will learn that we are “one nation under God.” It is not a conservative or liberal problem, it is an American problem. A house divided is doomed to fail.
The old sarge
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